Once again, religion and politics
It's hard to not stick to this subject considering all the hype about the election last night.
I still don't understand how in North America at least, Christianity has been heavily associated with the political right (although not as much as in the States from what I gather). Why is this?!? I just don't get it. I will fully admit that I am fairly socialist in my personal politics and I see few problems aligning my political values with my values as a Christian. I see far fewer problems than I see with aligning right-wing politics with Christian values, although I recognize that many Christians don't have those same problems as I do. But I still don't understand why it is usually assumed in most circles (both within and outside the Church) that for someone to be a Christian, they must be right-wingged politically. How did this shift occur? The best that I can see it, either Christians opposed left-wing politics because of Karl Marx's antagonism against all religion, or Christians began to be more comfortable with conservatives because they are naturally resistent to change. The way I see it, evangelical culture is always a minimum of 10 years behind the rest of society, if not 15, 20 or more, so they liked the idea of a political movement that moves at the same pace, and gradually any social change became seen as opposing Christianity itself, and not just comfortable evangelical culture. Those are the only two things I can see. If there are any better reasons, they escape me.
posted by Kristine @ 11:16 AM
I don't think that the reason evangelicals tend to stick to right-winged politics is because of our dislike of change. I think that it's the type of change we are trying to avoid. We are trying to hold on to a government that has morals and stands up for them instead of a governent that thinks that gay marriage is acceptable in order to keep up with the so-called "change". What's wrong with trying to slow down our society's plummet into immorality and Godlessness.
I disagree that Canadian society is entirely immoral. Sure, there are many immoral people out there, and the morals and values that society has are not nearly as demanding as Christian morals, but the average Canadian definitely has morals and values. many of these may actually be as demanding or even more damanding than contemporary evangelical values if they come from other major religions. Canada is not a Christian society any more, but this doesn't mean it has no morals. I know many non-Christian people who would die to protect the rights of the helpless, or who get just as angry at child molestors or things like that. The morality is there, it's just not Christian, and can we really expect non-Christians to behave like Christians. If they could do that, they wouldn't nee Jesus.
Kris has a point about other religions being strong morally, like Sikh, Islam, Judaism but Jordan is correct that the political left supports too many things that are totally opposite to christian beliefs, abortion, homosexuality, euthanasia are some. Besides just look at what communism has done to eastern europe, we're supposed to help the helpless, not lazy freeloaders, too many people will not work if they don't have to,a society that's "bleeding heart", destroys itself. Tough love is still LOVE, it allows the recipient to take charge of their own life and be responsible.
I think Kris makes some good points too, but I really don't think that she is responding to Jordan's comment very well. Jord never says anything about the world, or Canada, being immoral. She's saying that some governments (in their pursuit of tolerance) can lead to immorality within itself.
"Once something's been approved by the government, it's no longer immoral."
- Rev. Lovejoy (Simpson’s)
Kris,
I never said that Canadians in general were "immoral" all I said is that the country of Canada in the sense of governement mostly is slipping into imorality and Godlessness. That means a lack of God and a lack of a lot of Christian morals. And I think we should want non-Christians to behave like Christians, isn't that the point. It's either a sin or it isn't, just because they don't beleive it's bad doesn't make it good. And people ALWAYS need Jesus!!! So back to my original point, I don't think that, as a Christian, voting for a government that is going to hold on to a few more Christian ideals and morals is a bad thing, in fact I think it's something all Christians should consider when choose where to place their mark.
Kristine,
Good to see some interaction on your blog. The writing assigniment in class this week was, "What would my ideal church look like?" It has generated some interesting responses. Your statements about church and culture from the Jan 18 writing assignment are clear and I look forward to you adding more detail to your thoughts as we progress.
Milton
First, I'd like to a dress a statement made by Kristine.
"If they could do that, they wouldn't nee Jesus."
Personally, I think that "nee"ing or kneeing Jesus is a good idea anyways. I mean, you can't knee the guy, he's too nice. And besides, you just can't do that. Anywho, seriously, what I see is the fact that (with any political ideology) power is what can ultimately corrupt. Even though we might want a "conservative" majority government where Christian values are respected, such a majority can be quite dangerous. Especially if the leader does not serve (just as Christ himself did). I mean, no one can be perfect; however, extra stress is put on Christan leaders to reflect what they believe. Expectations are high among Christians. However, attacking the problem (as some conservatives might - not all though) is not the only option (and not Christ-like at all).
In short, we should be careful for what we wish for. Power is a dangerous thing; however, if it is shared, then one may influence the other and keep both sides in check.
I could go on, but I'm not really into politics as much - I'm more into literature and philosophy.
So...
there. I said it.
I agree that just because non-Christians think something is good doesn't make it so, but I can't in good conscience want Canada to reflect the values of the few when the majority don't agree with it. That doesn't mean that we should just say, oh well, let them go ahed and damn themselves then, but the fact that we are no longer the ones in control makes us as Christians realize that legislation and a Chritian-like culture doesn't turn people to Jesus. There are great benefits as Christians to being the underdogs, and yet still showing the love of Jesus. Who's the real Canucks fan, the guy who cheers for them every game, even when they suck, or the bandwagon-jumpers who hop on when they're winning in the playoffs and it's popular to wave a white towel around? Personally, I want to be the one who cheers for my team the day after they seem to have "lost" and everyone is saying how much they suck. That's the positions we Christians are starting to find ourselves in Canadian society now.
"Hazah to the shopkeep!"
Kristine you said that "I can't in good conscience want Canada to reflect the values of the few when the majority don't agree with it", Well if you truly beleive that then I think you may of fallen into relativistic point of view. First of all, apparently the consensus majority do agree with it because the conservatives got voted in. Secondly,I as a Christian I believe in absolute truth, it's either true and right or it isn't and no matter what the "majority" believe. I want to live in a country that upholds some of those truths and apparently so do some other people in Canada that's why the election turned out the way it did.
To comment on your hockey analogy, I agree that we as Christians should still "cheer on our team", if that's the way you want to put it, even after they've lost but does that mean we give up on wanting them to win? That makes you a pretty sucky fan if you've given up on them.
No government is uncorruptable, even King David fell short and he was a man after God's own heart, but did that mean God put someone else on the throne? Did he give control away to gentiles becasue the jews functioned better as the underdogs? I don't think so.
Good call Jordan, good call. I just don't like the idea of Canada being a Christian country purely on the basis of what kinds of laws we have. Secondly, I don't think the Conservatives got in because the country generally agrees with conserative political policy (then they would have been in all along), but just because everyone's sick of the Liberals and wanted someone new.
I have you agree with you on that one Kris. It was time for the Liberals to go and that's a lot of why the Conservatives got in.
Jordan is correct, God's laws stay the same, now and forever, even if society becomes more tolerant of immorality, as christians we need to stay firm on God,s truth and that should reflect on how we vote. If we vote for an "immoral" governement just because we like their social programs, we've sold out. "You can't serve two masters." God asks us, the church, to look after the widows, orphans, the hungry etc. Look at what mother Theresa accoplished by following God's will for her life; if we have 2 coates and someone has none, we're to give them one, etc.
The conservatives are already looking at raising the age of consent from 14 to 16. It's about time! the liberals REFUSED to do that for years!Pray for our leaders to be wise!
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